Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 22:07:04 -0800
From: "Flick Nthrottle"
Subject: My SE-R Story / Track Day
Back in high school I was the proud driver of a 1982 Ford Fairmont. If
you've seen Men-In-Black it looked just like the long boxy barge of a cart
that Will Smith drove in the movie (Except mine was sky blue w/ sweet rust
spots starting to come through). So when my Dad offered to give me his
Sentra, I figured it would be nice to have a car that I could take on long
trips without having to worry about it breaking down. Pops was tired of
dealing with the ordeal of having to comute in some of the worst traffic in
the CA Bay Area known as HWY 237 (read: parking lot) driving a stick. So he
decided to buy an automatic.. Boy did I luck out.
This was about a year and a half ago now. Back when he was driving it I
remember him telling me occasionally of stories about how he would smoke an
unsuspecting Porsche owner off the line, or how when he took the car into
shops mechanics would give the car their approval, and tell him that he
should hang on to the car, because it was rare yada yada and being the
attentive child that I was the stories that I half-way listened to I blew it
off as meaningless dad-talk. I mean come on, you drive a Sentra Dad.
Over the past year and a half the Sentra has turned me into auto-enthusiast.
What sealed the deal happened last weekend: my first track day. It was at
Sears Point Raceway w/ NASA. After my first run that Saturday I know I must
have had the hugest grin on my face every lap I was on the track because
just thinking about it now makes me crack a smile. It was quite possibly
the most fun I've ever had.
I have come to accept the fact that there is now no choice for me, I must
have more track. Not just for me of course, the SE-R deserves it.
Every day since then I have been scouring the archive before bed until my
eyes hurt, in search of mods and tips for my car. Just though I'd share my
story in my current state of newfound SE-R geekhood.
Bill Middleton
Black 91 Classic w/ 90k
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 10:19:09 -0700
From: "Zak Nilsson"
Subject: Why the SE-R is great
I'd like to take a moment now to reflect on why the SE-R is a great car.
We all know C&D had the 91-94 SE-R in its Top 10 list for all 4 years of its
production, we know most of the car mags had good things to say about it. What
is it about the SE-R that makes it as desirable as it is?
Well I've been driving our 94 Q45 for a little over a week now (just out of
choice, not necessity) and I've realized a few things that I had been taking for
granted. The SE-R is a sweet-handling car. Right out of the box it's tight and
controllable, and it's a joy to push through corners. It's a peppy car. Nobody
here can say the SE-R is a truly fast car (stock), but it's darn quick. The
torque has a lot to do with it, and the gearing. For whatever reason, Nissan
really nailed it with this one. Throttle tip-in is very rewarding, and more so
when the timing is advanced to 17, which is still within factory spec.
The SE-R is light and you can really tell. The Q weighs about 3800 lbs or so.
Even though it's faster 0-60 than the SE-R it doesn't necessarily feel like it.
The weight is another reason it's nimble and fun in corners as well. The
interior is sparse but functional, and you get goodies like the limited slip and
those excellent seats as factory equipment.
It's hard to describe what it's like to anybody that hasn't driven one, but
there's a lot more to the SE-R than just the numbers. It feels like the SE-R is
making the best of what it has, using 100% of its capabilities. There's a lot of
intangibles that add up to a great driving experience, like engine sound,
seating position, the feel of the shifter...
I've been asking myself over the past week why I'm still driving an SR20 car. I
bought my NX2000 brand new in May of 1993 and I've been driving an SR20 ever
since. My Classic needs some maintenance, it still has a cold hesitation
problem, it's got a rattle or two, the brakes are problematic (the rotors are
grooved to hell), my 3rd brake light has a short...and our Q45 is just about
perfect, only 40k miles, no rattles, no problems at all. When I got into my
Classic to go to work today I figured I would be disappointed with the rattle,
brakes, etc.
To my surprise, I found myself wondering why I hadn't been driving the SE-R
instead of the Q. Turn the stereo up so I can't hear the rattle, and I'm
enjoying my commute much more than I did in the Q. I welcomed the
responsiveness, the willingness to rev, the tight handling, the point-and-shoot
qualities of the SE-R. Even in 5th gear it feels like it just wants to go, and
that's something you can't say about many 4-bangers at all.
There's just something that feels right about the SE-R (and the NX2000), even if
I can't accurately describe it or even define it. I'm sure most of you know what
I'm talking about. In any case, I feel like I made the right choice when I
decided to get an SE-R after I wrecked my NX. I would gladly have gotten another
NX too, but I couldn't find one in my price range at the time so I got the SE-R
instead.
It's funny...my NX was a hell of a lot faster, but even a stock SE-R is a great
car. I guess sometimes you just have to put it in perspective. :)
Just ramblin',
Zak Nilsson
Classic
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 21:29:45 -0400
From: Dave
Subject: Re: SE-R vs. the World
Cadle, Rob (Turbo) wrote:
> Rockwell Ben wrote:
> >Do you think a 911 Turbo owner would waste 1 second on a page
> >where someone claims their SE-R is the Porsche's superior? Not
> >likely....except as comic relief.
> Ummm, ask Mike Kojima how many flames, cursings, and death threats he's
> recieved from 911 turbo owners after mentioning on a web-page that he
> was once able to hang with a poorly-driven 935 in his SE-R. This sort
> of mentality transcends owners of one particular type of car.
> Rob
Personally, I think there's almost always at least a little bit of
insecurity in this "my car can beat up your car" stuff, and by way of a
little "bench psychology", the flashier the car, the more likely this
seems to be the case. What attracted me to buy my '91 when it was
new-and a large part of what prevents me from falling victim to the
"gotta have a new one" appeals which permeate so much of our lives
here-is the fact that it's just a damn nice car. Are there faster
cars? Sure. Better hanling ones? Yup. Are there better looking cars?
What, are you BLIND? But it remains the case 8 years later that few
cars offer the combination of attributes which make this vehicle the
affordable, reliable, comfortable, economical, fun to drive, virtually
invisible to cops & thieves rarity that it is. Most all of the
important things just plain work well. As one magazine said around the
time I made my choice "The car just feels like its comfortable with
itself in most real-world situations", which is something I'll bet an
awful lot of those who submit to the flashycar appeal can't even say
about THEMSELVES.
And I'll bet the fact that my paid-off-5-years-ago econobox recedes in
the rear view mirror of that (fill in the flashy car blank) a whole lot
less quickly than its driver thought it would makes Daddy Power Lunch
feel damn near as heartsick as he would if I just blew him off flat. At
least in the latter case, the guy could console himself by thinking the
car must be "a hopped up sleeper".
And you just gotta love that ;-)
David
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 17:52:04 -0800
From: "Nilsson, Zak"
Subject: RE: SE-R vs Civic Si
Just to add to the thread, one of the mags out right now, forget which
one...I saw it in a supermarket...tested the new Civic Si against a Golf
VR6. The VR6 was faster in every speed test. Haven't we already determined
that the SE-R does pretty well against VR6 cars? On paper the VR6 is faster.
In real life...and then there's the torque. That's one reason the VR6 was
faster than the Si in the speed tests...and it's something SE-Rs have more
of than the Si does.
Everybody says Neon ACRs should be faster than SE-Rs too, but I've seen two
different ACRs run 15.8 and 15.9, respectively...I ran a 15.8 in my bone
stock NX on the same day as the one that ran a 15.9.
Just adding a little perspective to the conversation. Numbers on paper don't
usually mean a whole hell of a lot. This is especially obvious when you see
different magazines get times for the SE-R that vary between 15.6 and 16.7,
and 0-60 times between 6.9 and 8.5.
Just some food for thought.
Zak Nilsson
92 Classic, black
POP, STB
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 16:03:41 -0500 (CDT)
From: Marc Hernandez
Subject: Re: Driving pleasure
On Fri, 19 Jun 1998, Whitehead Louis G wrote:
> This is going to sound like a really weird question, but here goes.
> What exactly is it about the driving experience of an SR20DE car (or
> any car for that matter) that makes it pleasurable? I ask because
In the immortal words of my mother, it's "zippy". Basically, it's a small
car, and it handles really well "right out of the box". It accelerates
hard for a small car, and it's relatively inexpensive. I like the rush of
getting pressed back in my seat (which was really fun for the first few
years in my dad's old Vette, and to a lesser extent in my SE-R). I like
being able to zip around, hugging a corner hard, and pulling out of it.
It's like a thrill ride, but everyday - feeling the G-forces is great. I
like that I have a "stealth" sports car; people don't expect it to go
nearly as fast as it does. You see a Type-R integra, or even a GS-R, and
it looks like it should go fast, which is why it's a let down when it
doesn't go as fast as you'd expect (in the GS-R's case, anyway). But my
SE-R, when I go, I go FAST. Ok, so it's not a Lamborghini. But I'll
probably never be able to afford one of them, either. Hence, this is the
way that I can afford to do the same thing. There's a really twisty road
here in Austin called 2222 - if you ever come out here with your car, take
it down that way and maybe you'll understand where the fun comes from. :)
Hikaru
Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 20:35:36 -0600
From: "Bob Wise"
Subject: SE-R, M3, 240Z, Mustang GT, Talon
I've been seeing a lot of messages lately about SERs vs a variety of other
cars. I currently own '95 Talon AWD Turbo, an 88 Mustang GT, and a '92 SER.
I've driven a 96 M3 on the track. I used to own a 71 240Z.
Anyone who has a non-turbo SER and claims to have wasted any of these cars
was up against an incompetent or perhaps uncommitted driver. The Talon is a
great car. My only complaint with it is it is a too small for me in the
cockpit. The Mustang is faster than the Talon in the dry, but in the wet or
snow the Talon is matchless. The M3 is the nicest handling showroom stock
car I have ever driven, but is probably on par with the Talon in the dry.
The M3 brakes are really good, which sets it ahead for extended road-course
duty.
Don't get me wrong, I really like the SER. For a front-wheel drive car,
it's great. Last year, in the rain, I was turning better lap times than the
American Sedan Mustangs in our region (front wheel drive). The brakes on
the SER are also quite nice.
In the dry, the SER is the slowest of the bunch.
- -Bob
Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 15:17:01 -0500
From: "Dan Thompson"
Subject: The second love of my life (was Re: ACR Pee-on)
> How many of you with modded cars actually fell in love with your car
> on first drive?
I had wanted an SE-R since first reading about them. At the time I was
driving an '86 626 and was nothing short of amazed that an engine with
identical displacement could put out so much more power. Coupled with
the facts that it handled well and was a media darling, I really wanted
one. Problem was that I couldn't afford one.
When I took one out for a test drive I was expecting to be disappointed.
You know how it goes - you build up your expectations, only to become
disenchanted when you actually get there. As I was driving I kept
thinking, "This is even better than I hoped it would be!" It was
torquey, rev-happy and nimble.
I bought it that day.
When I totalled it a year later I was broken-hearted. I didn't think I
would be able to find a replacement that I could afford until the
insurance agent wrote me a check for $2500 more than I owed on the car.
=)
I ordered my '93 that day.
I've since performed most of the bolt-on modifications and have
transformed the car into a demon of speed. It no longer idles as
smoothly or quietly as I remember my first one idling on the test drive
(I remember thinking that I stalled it so I turned the key... GRRRRRRT.
Ouch.) and the booming exhaust can grate on the nerves during a long
trip. I still love it, though. I'm actually thinking of looking for
another '91-'93 when I send in the final payment (only two left!!!) to
use as a daily driver while getting serious with the mods on my '93. I
guess I wouldn't be alone in owning more than one SR20DE on this list.
Funny thing is that I still get butterflies in my stomach when I walk
out to the car with the key in my hands.
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 09:30:15 -0500
From: "Jarrod K. Wright"
Subject: Pre-partum Depression (was: Never too old to enjoy the ride!)
Steve, your Lotus Seven story was heartwarming. I've never driven a
Seven, but I can't imagine anyone owning a British car with that much
character and personality not shedding a tear when selling it. This
brings up an interesting point:
I've been debating over the past year or so about buying something a bit
larger and newer for my daily driver, but every time I think about doing
it, my knees go weak. I can't justify keeping the SE-R if I do so
(insurance, registration, upkeep, etc.), but at the same time, after
nearly seven years with the car, I can't imagine life without it. I've
truly bonded with this car. It's like a daughter to me, and I'd feel
like I was abandoning her if I handed the keys over to someone else.
In many ways, it's a good thing that there's a dearth of new cars
fitting my bill. Sadly, Nissan offers exactly zero. In fact, there are
only two cars that strongly interest me right now -- the new Passat and
that Legacy 2.5GT I keep harping about -- but they're priced a bit out
of my range. This is all very fortunate for me, because it means I don't
have to face the music yet.
Am I insane (on this point only, please), or does anyone else feel
deeply for his SE-R? When I use the word "deeply" here, I'm referring
not to a general fondness or enjoyment, but to an emotional tie that's
difficult to describe without anthropomorphicizing. I know it's silly to
become attached to a hunk of metal, rubber and plastic, but when the day
comes that I give up my SE-R (as it surely will), it will be a sad one
indeed.
Jarrod K. Wright
'91 Classic
[ and the reply: ]
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 10:46:41 -0500
From: "George D. Roffe"
Subject: Re: Pre-partum Depression
Sure, take away all our fun. No, you aren't insane on this point (unless I
am too, but that's always possible with me). From time to time a really
special car comes along. That doesn't happen often. The original 510 and
the 240Z were such cars. I think the original SE-R is also one of those
cars (can't comment on the 200 since I've never driven one).
She's not the prettiest sedan out there. She's not the fastest (or
quickest). But she responds to my urgings better than any mistress ever
could. She's always ready for a go. And everything she does is nearly
effortless and without complaint. She was cheap to get and cheaper to keep
(also better than any mistress). She responds to me like no other.
Sure, there are other temptations out there. Some you can dress up better.
You can also pump 'em up in more ways. But none of them can do all the
things my girl can do without complaint, always willing to please.
Personal relationship? Emotional tie? I guess you can say I have one with
my SE-R. I've never had a car that I've had such a close, personal
relationship with. And to think I found her almost by accident. It's like
suddenly realizing your best friend's sister is an incredible woman. Then
you find out she's an incredible lover as well.
Many things have come and gone in my life since I've owned my SE-R. But my
relationship with her shall remain perennial.
George Roffe
PS: Next time a hear a siren, I'll expect the guys in the white coats with
the big butterfly nets. :-)
[Not exactly SE-R related, but a worthy read.]
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 13:21 -0600 (CST)
From: "Matthew A Trostel" Matthew.A.Trostel@MCI.Com
Subject: Car Enjoyment (non SE-R)
With the thread of street racing coming back, I thought I'd chime in
on a different topic: fun. It's disappointing that so much of car
enjoyment is skewed towards competition and racing. I've done the
autocross scene and gotten into macho, ego gratifying, mine-is-bigger-than
yours-is street races occasionally but those are different from simple
driving pleasure.
Old British sports cars were about fun (and car repair). Most were not
fast, maybe quick. The Miata is the same concept. A car that communicates
with the driver so as to make driving fun. The limits of these cars are
not extremely high and they're not going to win many drag races. (As
a side note, drag racing/street racing is not so much about fun due to the
driver/vehicle interaction as it is about competition with another
person: no different from boxing or fencing - with spectators in the
ring in the case of street racing.) Part of the reason these sports cars
are fun is because of their low limits and the relative safety of the
slower speeds.
Doing mods to these and other cars will likely make them faster but
will they be more fun? It may make them less so. And by increasing
the limits of any car, the danger associated with pushing those limits
increases. The feeling of enjoyment becomes one of exhilaration an
fear: "Oh shit, now that I can do 60 through this corner instead of
45, I'll really be screwed if I mess up."
Imagine how much easier and safer and cheaper it would be if we could
just enjoy driving down a curvy road or through the occasional
cloverleaf without regard to whether our car will outrun an Integra or
Mustang or a friend's SE-R.
Matt
Dallas
'92 SE-R
[ and the reply: ]
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 08:17:45 -0500
From: Rockwell Ben brockwell@postsw.com
Subject: Re: Car Enjoyment (non SE-R)
I have to agree with Matt as to his views on car enjoyment. Short
anecdote:
About six months ago I was look at buying an M3 so I went to my local
dealer and test drove one. It was all the reviews said it was...one hell
of a car!!...
I did not buy the M3. The reason: I had the money so it wasn't that. It
was just TOOmooth. I drove on several roads I had driven often in my NX.
They were enjoyable roads...nice curves etc. The M3 had all kinds of
power and handled incredibly, but in order to have "as much fun" in the
M3 as I have in my NX I had to go TWICE the speed. I found myself going
70 on roads I would normally go 40 on in my NX. From a stop light on a
highway (60 speed limit) I stomped on it ( no satisfying squeal due to
traction control). When I got to the point where I felt the same as I do
in my NX on the highway, I glanced at the speedo and was shocked to
discover I was doing 110. At that point I told myself, if I get this car
(the M3) I will kill myself in it..or worse kill someone else. I drove
back to the dealer and got back in my NX and had fun on the way home.
Ben
Little '93 NX
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 17:01 -0600 (CST)
From: "Matthew A Trostel"
Subject: Collectibility of SE-R's
I doubt the SE-R will ever become collectible. Historically there
have been 3 main factors that make a car collectible: limited production
numbers, a racing heritage, and lust factor. The SE-R doesn't score
high in any of those areas. Some cars like the '57 Chevy and 60's
Mustangs may score low in one area (limited production) but very high
in another (lust factor). The SE-R will probably go the way of the
Rabbit GTI, Dodge Omni GLH-S, CRX Si, MR2 Turbo, ... There will be those
few who will know and cherish their performance ability but there aren't
enough of those people to support higher market values.
Matt
Dallas
'92 SE-R
[I agree. Ah well. At least the prices should remain low for used SE-Rs.
The prices for early models(91-92) are beginning to come down into the
$3,000-$4,000 range, fairly affordable for a fun weekend/second car.]
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 20:59:09 -0400
From: gary
Subject: fire me up why dont ya (venting)!
Along the lines of the stupid racing thread. My 93 classic was refered
to as "that little red shit box". Only to be countered by " my EX (96
civic) feels just about as fast". You guys know I havent really hot
rodded my ser sure it now runs 6.70's 0-60 and thats way faster than its
7.50 start. But still when members of my family tell me that their 95
interpid(dle) is just as fast as my camaro (when in actuallity it isnt
as fast as my ser) that really pisses me off. What does an intrepid run
0-60 (ho motor) 8's . My other family members EX wouldnt hit a 15 sec
run down a mine shaft (but of course it has a high performance air
cleaner on it and sounds like a top fueler). What should I do have drag
races at family get togethers ?
Oh wait I got it put a freaking hood scoop that looks like a mailbox on
my hood ! I am really not getting respect here. I encourage the gospel
spreading to increase geometrically (within safties limits) until these
people realize that SE-R is not a sentra, or a girls car, or and economy
car, its a baby hot rod with an attitude and generally has drivers that
are well aware of that fact !
BTW do you think a pair of autocannons bolted to the fenders would get
it ?
Later sorry for the waste of bandwidth, but WE feel like rodney
dangerfield
GK
[ And then a reply: ]
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:44:31 -0400
From: Angel Freire
Subject: Re: fire me up why dont ya (venting)!
At 08:59 PM 10/15/97 -0400, Gary wrote:
>BTW do you think a pair of autocannons bolted to the fenders would get
>it ?
>Later sorry for the waste of bandwidth, but WE feel like rodney
>dangerfield
Now that's comedy! I've sometimes wanted to perform that mod, but not
because my car doesn't get the respect it deserves.
I'm sure we all understand your sentiment. Tell you what though... I
love the anonymity that my classic provides. I like a car that has sporty
looks without being flashy. There is nothing better than watching a
dumbfounded, blank-stare fade away in the rearview mirror.
A car as innocous as the 91-94 SE-Rs doesn't attract the attention of
car thieves and is such a specialty, enthusiast-item that no one knows a
darn thing about 'em. You'll catch the poor saps sleeping every time cuz
they don't know any better.
Yep, it's the perfect car for me. Good mileage, hauls a$$, brakes good,
handles well, and looks nice without attracting undue and unwanted
attention.
- ---
Angel Freire
Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 03:38:54 -0400
From: michael kruger
Just thought I would add an old former Nissan techs perspective to the
introduction of the SR20DE family.
In 1988, Nissan was a real ugly car maker. With the exception of the
300zx turbo, they all were slow, heavy, and ugly. (the 300zx turbo being
only heavy). In 1989 or so, Nissan transformed a world of ugly into a
world of performance. Out came the all new Maxima and 300zx. We were in
heaven with two shiny new 300zx's parked in our service bays for pre
delivery inspections. We had people from across the street at the
carwash coming by for a closer look. The whole dealership was checking
out the hot new Nissans.
Later, when the SR20DE family was introduced, only the dealership techs
got all excited. We knew what lay stealthly below the hoods. And it was
all our secret as we got behind the wheel for a road test, only to
arrive back smiling from ear to ear. The salesmen never caught on until
they saw all the techs and the parts guys huddled over the SE-R for a
full debriefing. To everyones delight, Nissan had crafted a wonderful
expression of the big engine/small car theory. Our lead tech loved it so
much, he bought three of them, two SE-R's and a NX2000. He has lots of
trophy's to prove their worth.
--
Michael Kruger (So. Portland, Maine USA)
mkruger@maine.rr.com
Former Nissan Technician (89-92)
92 NX2000 new D40M2's, hotshot intake,
Otherwise stock but not for long;-)
"Serpent in the temple of VTEC"
Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 17:20:18 -0500
From: "Jarrod K. Wright"
Subject: Miscellaneous Ramblings
I haven't read that issue of Automobile, but I'm not too offended nor
surprised. The Sentra SE-R, NX2000 and 200SX SE-R have been put in the
"Things That Are Fun To Drive But A Bummer To Be Seen In" category
since Nissan began making them. I remember when I first brought my
brand-new white '91 SE-R home and showed the family; there was a chorus
of, "Er, nice car," and "What kind of mileage does it get?" Nobody
asked about the 7500-rpm engine, 4-wheel disc brakes, close-ratio
5-speed or tuned suspension. And I have yet to receive a "Man,
cool-looking car!" comment from anyone on the street, at the gas
station or in the mall parking lot. There's a harsh truth to be faced,
folks: Our cars are ugly ducklings to most of the driving public.
That's fine by me, though. I've learned to accept it. Sure, it'd be
nice to get the same ooohs and aahhs as the pretenders in
Miatas, but I knew what I bought when I bought it. My baby is the most
beautiful thing on the road to me, and when I pass a well-kept NX2000,
200SX SE-R or Sentra SE-R, I always get a smile on my face and a
flutter in my stomach at the simple beauty of it. And my heart breaks
when I see an unkept, used-up Classic or NX2000 with dirty,
weather-faded paint, peeling hub covers and that lopsided gait that
comes from a spring or two that's given up the fight.
Let the public and the press remain igornant of what we drive. We'll
never get the respect of the buxom beauties on the streetcorners
foaming over Camaros or the journalists who call our cars ugly, but we
all know the truth.
Jarrod K. Wright
'91 Vail White SE-R
Bone Stock and Proud!
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 01:13:24 -0600
From: "Leonard M. Cachola"
Subject: Of GS-Rs and SE-Rs
> Also, torque is a big factor when comparing the SE-R to the GSR or Type
> R...the SE-R makes 140hp @ 6500 RPM, and 132 lb-ft of torque at 4500 RPM.
> The Type R makes 195 hp, but not until 8,000 rpm, and only 130 lb-ft of
> torque, and that doesn't even come until 7500 rpm.
> The GS-R is similar, with less torque, 125 lb-ft, and less hp at 170.
> Both, again, above 7,000 RPM.
Sounds great on paper, but that's not the case. The SE-R and GS-R are
similar off the line, but the GS-R has a "dead" spot from 3000-4500 RPM,
while the SE-R lives in that range. Still, the GS-R has surprisingly
useable torque despite the dead spot - pulls nice and steady through
4500, then the car really takes off. Peak torque is 128 lb-ft at 6200
RPM and peak horsepower is at (gasp) 7600 RPM. The SE-R does pull
nicely from 3000-6400, but dies after that.
Around town, though, I don't find myself missing my SE-R despite the
GS-R's dead spot - downshifting isn't as necessary to driving a GS-R
around town as this mailing list leads people to believe.
> But those are just numbers. If you really want to decide, drive them. I
> suppose one other solid advantage the SE-R has over any of the
> Hondas/Acuras except the Type R is the limited slip differential,
> standard on the SE-R.
No argument there. Wheelspin is a big problem, as is wet weather
handling, especially in turns, with a GS-R. In my SE-R, if I got too
deep into a wet turn and started understeering heavily, I could lift off
the throttle and swing out the rear, then get back on and get control.
The GS-R just understeers itself to oblivion once it loses grip. About
the only thing you can do is let off the pedal to slow down the rate you
head for the curb. Fortunately, the limits are high enough for most not
to worry about it. [Me: Huh? Shouldn't any car experience lift-throttle
oversteer in a wet turn? See my LTO link on my main page.]
For an SE-R, I'd say its strongest point is that nobody expects a measly
Sentra or ugly 200SX to kick ass. That's really what I miss - watching
jaws drop when I floored my Sentra. The GS-R is a much nicer car inside
and out - it FEELS more expensive. Both the 200 and the Sentra feel
cheap after driving the Acura. Still, I do miss my SE-R dearly.
Leonard
Houston, TX
1997 Acura Integra GS-R 3,500 miles
formerly 1992 Sentra SE-R 94,500 miles (totalled)
http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/lcachola
From: "Merlin"
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 11:14:12 -0800
Subject: SE-R vs M3 ecu mods
Had another tangle with one of the new M3s, glad to say that after racing 4
on the freeway we can beat em from 60-120 (with all normal bolt ons). Why?
Cuz our cars weigh 2450lbs vs 3100lbs. Quite entertaining, he had a
passenger (makes no real difference on the freeway) and as I passed them
repeatedly the guy would give me a thumbs up. If you let an M3 catch up to
you it's gonna pass, but if you manage to start the race at a lower speed
they dont have enough power to reel you in, of course it helps that they
are limited to 137.
I was happy with the small changes that Clark did to ecu program. Yesterday
we got a change to refine the ECU program for the bigger Q45 injectors. I
finally got a fitting so we could hook up the Horiba which allowed me to
see if Clark could lean things out a little up top. It turned out there was
a little fiddling he could do. It was a little fat up top, so he leaned it
out starting at about 5500 I think till redline. It helped, it pulls harder
and farther on the freeway. It also allowed me to pull the M3 more and give
me a little more time to react to his acceleration. I had Clark bump up the
rev limiter to 7972rpm....with the new ECU mods and this cooler weather the
bugger pulls all the way there. 4th gear is now good for close to 130mph.
Lately, I've been in idiot mode. Since getting the V rated 195/50s (Toyo
still sucks) the car acclerates quicker vs the 205/50s and my speedo is
close to normal again. I didnt think I could go as fast as I can now, 137
on a flat is not much of a problem (I was chasing an older turbo RX7 (we
are about even with those cars)) and I was still pulling (slowly) in 5th.
The car is a little monster in 4th gear from 80 (bout 5k rpm...where things
start happening) to 110-115. That's the speed were I could drop the M3.
oh yeah, with 100 extra HP via N2O, you can accelerate from 120-140 like
you can from 100-110, it goes by QUICK! Nitrous (100hp anyways, 50hp doesnt
quite do it) at around 60mph on up is like being tied to a giant rubber
band then having it pull you around just about any car you want. I
devistated a guy in an NSX one day. No contest, I was around the guy so
fast and dropped him so fast it wasnt any fun. He was definately trying, he
would laugh and shake his head as I blew by him around 110, couldnt believe
a little Sentra could go so fast. We are also a close match for an NSX from
the magic 60-110, after that and they have too much HP. They arent that
fast...damn nice cars though.
anyways, enough rambling. If I can just get Clark to do one thing with the
turbo I could get it on my engine. Oh yeah did I mention that a guy with
the modest turbo (found out he made 250hp at the wheels!) can peg 5th gear
(7700) ?
From: Searl
Date: Tue, 07 May 1996 08:24:11 -0700
Subject: Re: Honda VTEC engines
At 06:10 PM 5/6/96 -0700, -Y Santoso wrote:
>Anyway, I have never raced a Prelude before (it's a rarity here). However I
>am sure a stock SE-R will win over a stock Accord EX in a straight line
>race. Not sure about a Prelude. Anybody?
In stock form, it is very close up to about 85 or so. After that, the
Prelude (VTEC only- 190hp) will walk away from you. I have a close friend
who owns a 94 Prelude VTEC, so we raced regularly (his car was a benchmark
for my performance mods). With intake and exhaust, I would consistently
beat him off the line but would again lose the lead at higher speeds. After
adding my Stillen header, I could hang with him anywhere! Sometime in
between my mods, he added an RS Akimoto "Funnel Air" intake with a SS
cat-back Trust exhaust (very nice). With these mods, I am not able to beat
him OTL as regularly and it makes for some very close racing overall.
The Prelude has an excellent engine, and the extra weight is the only
reason why the car isn't faster. It should be noted that it really has to
be driven "correctly" to harness it's power (the power band is very top
heavy with much less power down low). The SR20DE is MUCH easier to drive
quickly. After driving the car quite a bit, I realize that "switch" around
5k in the VTEC band is mostly sound. You think you are going a lot faster
than you really are. Sounds awesome.
SEaRl
From: Merlin
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 20:24:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: SE-R vs. M3
Before I begin, I have to mention that I had two Honda Civic kills this
morning (both at once), so I dont feel too bad not beating the M3. ;)
It was the new generation (24x hp) M3 driven by some Biffy looking dude.
We raced around on the freeway from 60-140 (I am out of nitrous, otherwise I
would have blown him off the freeway without thinking about it).
Basically the outcome was like this....
With all the bolt ons our car can match the power to weight ratio of the new
M3 at lower speeds, like 60-100, but you gotta work at it. If either car
gets a lead (the M3 can lag a little and still make it) they stay there.
In and out of traffic our car is an easy match.
if you get into a side by side race they start pulling slowly on you at
90mph then faster at 100mph and continue from there.
If you get a jump on them and get momentum they cant catch you. We were
going down hill and I probably had a 10mph lead on the guy and I blew by him
at 120 and continued to 140 with him not gaining an inch (I know they are
limited to 137 or something like that)
I know the guy was pretty pissed cuz he was trying pretty damn hard to stay
in front of me, and the fact that I could pull him in certain areas I am
sure didnt help. It was great! :)
I aint afraid of the new M3s anymore...BMW's finest vs. Nissan's econobox
With headwork I think I would be even with an M3
The 200SX might fair a little better if the race started at 90mph.
I have blown off older stock looking M3s without too much of a problem on
the freeway, done it 3 times. All those times at less than optimum
conditions (cams, headers not as good as I have now). Off the line our car
would spank an M3 without too much problem, they are faster up top, but our
car can still pass em with the right bolt ons.
I can give a major headache to the new M3s...;) The new M3 will spank us off
the line and 1/4 mile, but once we get going and their torque doesnt make
that much of a difference (a la Mustank) we can harass. When I raced the new
M3 tonight it was a tad slower than a Z28, the Z28 pulled harder at 110+.
From: Wayne Cox
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 23:52:11 -0400
Subject: Drag racing & spankin stangs
If you don't give a shit about drag race stories, Press Delete Now :)
I was out at the local strip last Thurs. (Whar the hell wuz you John?!) Was
just going to watch, but ended up paying xtra to run. The first two weeks
open for test & tune they were mobbed with over 150 cars. This night, I'm
in the stands, the highest numbered car I see is 37, and all these silly
mustangs are running mid 15's.
(Homer voice) Mmmmmmmm must embarrass mustangs.
Lined up first next to this new bright orange stang with the new 4.6 and
some gaudy centerline wheels. Jumped him by .14 off the lights and crossed
the line first, but he actually beat me at 15.420 vs 15.515, a very close
fun match up though. There were so few people running you could drive
around, grab your 'slips, and get right back up to run! It was bizarre.
All these cars hanging back in the lanes cooling off, and the guy working
the line is waiting for people to come up! I've been wanting to make some
cooling system mods to help out, but based on all these back to back runs I
got, it might not make much difference.
I'm thinking all these new 'stangs, esp the 4.6 OHC ones are really slow for
V8s! I lost some of my slips, but beat another 4.6 by a few tenths. Later
a buddy with a '95 stang 5.0 showed up. He was just going to spectate, but
couldn't resist the open runs. We ran side to side 3 times, and I beat him
twice. He finally got slightly ahead of me the last time with a 15.3
something. I got my new SP8000s that day and was really wanting my gumball
rubber back [15.1 previously :( ]
Oh well, had fun and got better feedback on launch technique and shifting
doing so many runs so close (8 or 9 total.) On the way home the roof and
windows are open and my time slips sitting on the other seat get aloft and
blow out the roof - Arrgh! I've only got 5 slips from 8 to 10 runs. SH!
-Wayne
From: ZNilsson@handel.jlc.net (Zak Nilsson)
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 08:11:18 -0500
Subject: Re:
Bear wrote:
>if you
>wanted to drag-race why the hell would you start with a FWD DOHC four-cylinder
>anyway, i.e. short on torque and shifting the weight and traction to the
>un-powered wheels. In a similar vein, some of the contributors seem to have
>spent many thousands of dollars on these upgrades. Wouldn't it have been a
>more satisfying option to accumulate these piece-meal expenditures and traded
>up to a more capable platform?
I think you missed the point of the SE-R there, buddy. Obviously if all we
wanted to do with the SE-R is drag race we'd get something else. The point
of the SE-R is that it's a fairly inexpensive daily driver that's actually
pretty darn quick. If you can pony up the cash for a GN, fine, go for it.
What kind of gas mileage does it get? Remember, the SE-R is a daily driver
for almost all of us on this list. And it gets between 15.5 and 16 seconds
in the quarter, stock; not too bad for a FWD DOHC four-cylinder that you
can buy for less than $16,000 brand new. And the reason people spend money
on mods is so we can watch the expressions on the faces of Mustang and
Eclipse TSi and Camaro and various other "muscle car" drivers as we pull by
them in a "Sentra". And it's still just as useful as a daily driver.
I'll wrap this up now and then get off my soapbox; If you wanted a drag
racer, why didn't you get one? Appreciate the SE-R for what it is, and then
enjoy it.
Zak Nilsson, Professional Wierdo
'93 NX2k, Stock with advanced timing, Torquemaster plugs and Hella electric
horns.
From: Merlin
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 08:34:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Why ask Why?
>un-powered wheels. In a similar vein, some of the contributors seem to have
>spent many thousands of dollars on these upgrades. Wouldn't it have been a
>more satisfying option to accumulate these piece-meal expenditures and traded
>up to a more capable platform? The SE-R is neat as hell when you're on a
>budget but it's limitations when it comes to performance are obvious. This is
>not an attack, I'm genuinely curious. Having something unique is rewarding
>but I keep seeing long lists of the same upgrades. If you're looking for
>transcendance via cashflow try Scientology. But really, I like the technical
>data and opinions on products. Many happy returns.
If your just into drag racing, then yeah, there are many other cars that can
easily go faster down the track. Some people (including myself) like the
"underdog" approach to owning a car, the SR20 family can beat many stock or
mild V8s off the line when they arent "supposed" to, that in itself is fun.
The SR20 is not really a budget car, it's a steal at the price that Nissan
is asking for it (this is in regards to the engineering, drive train,
engine, etc), the engine is better (better head, balanced, matched parts
(injectors, pistons, cranks, ect), better bearing surfaces, tighter
clearances, better revving (we dont really have a bore and stroke combo that
is known for singing up to 8 grand), etc) than a great majority of V8s, V6s,
6s, and 4s. From the trick things I have found out that Nissan does to the
SR20 they intended the thing to haul ass and last forever. The engine can
take the HP/torque without a peep and drive you around from day to day in
stop and go traffic, with a turbo, 250hp is nothing, 300hp is easy, 400hp is
driveable, and 520hp is currrently the most so far. With 250hp an SE-R can
walk away from 300HP Corvettes on a rolling start all day long. In a daily
approach the SE-R is just plain faster than anything in its price range and
often times two times that, unless something comes in with like double the
HP/Torque (Z28, Corvette, 300ZX TT, RX7 TT). It seems that unless another
car has just gobs of torque (probably 50-100 more lb/ft) and double the HP
the SR20 is going to either beat it or be on its butt. I speak mainly of
rolling starts, freeway, cornering, etc. Against other 4 bangers nothing can
really touch it, it either takes nitrous or a turbo or a totally tricked out
NA engine to beat a garden variety SR20.
Parts cost so much for the SR20 because of its limited market, parts for
Fords and Chevys are cheap cuz there is tons of competition and the market
is very mature (30-40 years of mature at least :)
So the whys are; underdog appeal, anti-ticket appeal (for the Barney Fife
Sentras), all go and no show, good MPG even while hauling butt, a good,
simple, easily maintained body, a jewel for an engine that belongs in a 25k+
car.
From: Brian Porter
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 12:40:48 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: What???
I have been following this thread for a little while..
Fact is for the $$ (upgrades and all) there is nothing that combines the
stealth, performance, economy and room of the SE-R. The SE-R is a very
unique vehicle and there is nothing that could replace EVERYTHING it offers.
Outperform it? Of course, but it would require spending more $$..
My SE-R has almost 60k on it and needs struts, brakes, clutch, header
e.t.c. For a price LESS than that of OEM equiptment(cost of ownership in
my mind, NOT spending "thousands"), I have purchased the suspension upgrade,
better brakes, a better clutch and a bit more HP via HS Header.. Great deal
to me for at least another 60k of bliss.. The wheels are an added bonus.. ;)
Yes it is a monster EGO boost to shut down a 5.0 Mustang...It shouldn't
happen.. I had an 85 GT with a ton of mods, I'll take the SE-R anyday. I'll
leave my Sentra emblems on the decklid just to continue this type of
reaction.. As I don't make it to the track that often, I slalom Chevy
Corsicas and Dodge Caravans on my way to work.. ;) (puts me in a great mood
too..)
The drag race event is something to do with our cars.. If I was content
running down a straight line, I'd buy a drag car..
From: Thomas Paule
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 20:52:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Raced a Maxda MX-6 GT...
Fellow Race Freaks,
On the way home from the office I decide to stop into Taco Bell for a
bachelors-Friday-Night-Special-Dinner. I zip through the drive through
and decide to wait until I get home to dig in (yes, this plays into the
story).
As I'm turning left onto the main strip to my house, I notice the car in
front of me is a Mazda MX-6 GT Turbo. It's lowered and has some
"Pro-Motion Performance" sticker on the back. I think to myself that
thids guy will be game, so as he turns I hit the gas a little and see if
I can bait him by acting like I'm gonna scoot around him in the left lane
after we turn. He sees me and cuts into the left lane, trying to take it
from me. I zip to the right and hit the gas, sending the Dr. Pepper in
the passenger seat tipping over. As the guy floors it and flies off I'm
left reaching into the back seat to grab a towel and clean the spill.
Thank god for my leather seats, for the mess was gone in a flash and I
was behind "EL Dickhead" at the next light at the next block.
He's looking in this rear view laughing at me, and generally enjoying his
"stomping" he gave me. I smile, knowing that he has no clue what terror
the name SE-R is about to bring him!
The light turns green and he eases away from the light, watching me to
see if I'm gonna jump. I pull off slowly at first, letting him get about
three carlengths ahead of me so he thinks I'm not gonna try.
WAAAAA!!!!! I nail it at about 20. He hears me and is set to run too,
but I'm soon in the left lane on his rear quarter panel. Trouble is a
Blazer has pulled out of a driveway and into my lane about 1/2 block down
the road. I'm still oozing by the Turbo, but I don't think I'll have
enough time to get around him without a reeal close call. I let off once
I'm right by the dork and jump in behind him. At least the light at the
end of the block is red, so I'll have another go. Unfortunately the
stoplight gods weren't with me, since there was a Jeep Cherokee hogging
the left lane at the light. Looks like I start 3rd off the poll again!
This time the dork decides to turn into a dick. He floors it initially
off the light, and I do too, only to see him hit his brakes after a
second. I do the same, only to hear and see him get back on it. DANMIT!!
I stay in the gas this time and easily catch him 1/2 way through 2nd
gear. He gets to hear my engine sing to 7500 as I drive by on his left
and shift into third as I'm just outside his window. I'm looking over at
him as I shift and his eyes are all wide in amazement with a "*UCK,
that's a Sentra?!?!?".
I pull a good 1/2 carlength at the shift and keep pulling until about 80
(in a 35). Then I hit the brakes. He flies by (like I couldn't go any
faster) in an attempt to make himself feel better.
I pull up next to him at the next light sipping my Dr. Pepper, being
totally casual as I hit my right turn signal and look over at him.
He's eying my SE-R like its some kind of space ship! He was in total
disbelief, and had a look on his face like "Man, I need one of those!"
I was thinking of telling him "Right you are!"
Long live the SR20DE!!!!!!!!
From: Derek Solomon Pai
Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 22:25:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Why we beat 'faster' cars [Re: Now wait a second.]
On Sun, 26 May 1996, jt wrote:
> OK, I have a curious question. Now if a se-r does 0-60mph in the high 7's,
> why is it that many of you experience success against cars rated (magazines)
> with faster acceleration times, ex: gs-r's, mustangs, etc.?
>
This is my impression, but I could be wrong, so if I am someone let me
know.
1. Lots of people buy mustangs and gs-rs for reasons other than their
merit as sporting drivers' cars, which means:
A. High percentage of unskilled/sloppy/dumb drivers
B. Lots of automatics (at least for Mustangs
C. They're not always trying as hard as us (balls = 20 hp)
D. I would wager that SE-R drivers are much more sporting drivers,
knowledgable about the capacities and limits of their cars and how to make
the most of them, by virtue of the fact that the SE-Rs are low-volume,
poorly publicized, homely non-sex symbols.
2. Mods = hp =speed
3. Smart SE-R drivers will try to bring the race into territory that
favors us.
A. While the GS-R has mucho high-end power, low and midrange are
much less impressive. Mid-speed roll-ons (from 30, 50, or even 70) usually
give an advantage to whoever gets the jump in the right gear. Off the
line, if a GS-R bogs enough to make 'em wait too long for the VTEC to
kick in at 4500 (?), it's already over, and they give up.
B. Mustangs run out relative breath at high speeds (80+), and
the 4.9s fall entirely flat at 5000 rpm, but not enough drivers handle
that (the new mod 4.6s pull much better up there) weakness well.
4. 0-60 1/4 mile top speed
Sentra SE-R 7.4 15.8@89 mph 125/130
Integra GS-R 7.1 15.5@92 134
Mustang GT 4.6 6.6 15.1@?? 140
[All times from C&D]
These times are fairly close, especially with the GS-R. Good launches,
better timed cleaner shifts, knowledge of torque and hp engine
characteristics, and such can more than make up a few tenths of a second
from a start, and give a *great* advantage on the highway. Add to that a
few mods, and it's all over for many Integras and Mustangs.
5. And here's the biggie: If you race a lot, you're bound to win some, and
many of us will refrain from posting losses, making for a false impression
of a greater success rate than is accurate.
Luck and skill play a large part in racing, and can erase even the 75 hp
advantage of the Mustangs on occasion, so I don't think we're reading too
many bullshit stories. Otherwise we'd hear of people (other than Merlin;)
feeding us lines about beating Z28s, M3s, 911s, 'vettes, etc.
One question, though. How come nobody ever races NA 300ZXs? They're not
any faster than Mustangs...
$Derek
92 SE-R
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